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Lance Armstrong: Unfettered and unfiltered - Part 2

Published: Dec. 9, 2005
The only guy to do that.
The only guy to do that.
Photo: AFP (file photo)

When Lance Armstrong strolled into the private air terminal at his hometown airport in Austin for this interview he was dressed down for the gig he was attending that night, starring his fiancée, Sheryl Crow. A small duffle bag over his shoulder, Armstrong wore designer jeans deliberately spotted with white paint, a black Nike-brand T-shirt bearing the gray silhouette of an eagle, thick-soled black punk-style ankle boots, and a sharp, black baseball cap advertising the “SIX Lounge, Austin, Texas.”

In the couple of hours before he climbed into an executive jet, Armstrong spoke to VeloNews at great length and with much candor. In this, the second half of that interview (see "Unfetteredand unfiltered-Part 1"), Armstrong talks about his team director Johan Bruyneel; his Discovery Channel teammates, including George Hincapie; and his former U.S. Postal Service teammates Kevin Livingston, Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton. He discusses in detail, for the first time, his contretemps with Filippo Simeoni at the 2004 Tour de France, and his long-standing differences with VeloNews, the magazine. Armstrong ends the interview with what some may think is surprising advice for his son Luke.

Theinterview appears in the December 5 issue of VeloNews, which contains a special section looking back on Armstrong's career. Included in the issue is a look at all of the VeloNews covers featuring Armstrong from 1991 to 2005, and stories from VeloNews contributors, including Samuel Abt of the International Herald Tribune and George Vecsey of The New York Times.

VeloNews: Many people have helped you over the years. Is there any single person, besides yourself, that you absolutely couldn’t have done without?

Lance Armstrong: One person?

VN: Yeah.

LA: [Johan] Bruyneel. For sure. Too much interaction, 10 times a day, just a constant companion, even when we’re not together. Even now. This is a friend. It never could have happened without him. I mean, I miss a lot of things about cycling, but I really miss him. And I miss those moments that we shared together and just, you know…. He was the guy who made it all possible, definitely. And I hope that he can find that with somebody else. I would be equally satisfied as I was the other seven years if he did that for somebody else.

VN: You first met, I assume, just as soon as you started pro racing in `92.

LA: He always reminds me of the times that [with Miguel Induráin] he dropped me into Liège in the ’95 Tour. He found the footage and he shows the video, and then he says, “Watch this, watch this!” And then I get to go back at him, and say, “You f---er. You sat on his wheel. The whole time. You didn’t take one pull.” I mean. Anyway, it’s all in fun.

Buddies. Bruyneel has played a critical role in Armstrong's success.
Buddies. Bruyneel has played a critical role in Armstrong's success.
Photo: AFP-File photo

VN: Why did you choose him as the team director?

LA: For no reason other than he was newly retired; I thought it would be good to have somebody with a modern approach to cycling, because he had just come from it. I knew he was very capable with languages, which in an odd way is very important, if you consider all the travel… His job as director is not so much as to sit in the race and say, “Okay, attack now, or don’ t attack or sit up, ride harder.” So much of it is off the bike, in the office, logistics, planning things, getting riders here, getting directors there. That’s a tough job for someone who can only speak one language. It’s an impossible job. And Johan’s not a delegator. In that regard we’re exactly the same. He does everything himself.

Also, he was a damned good rider. I thought he was well rounded, he could climb, he could time trial, he had experience in the classics. And oddly enough we didn’t get on together when we raced together. We weren’t close. I didn’t get on with [the] ONCE [team] at the time, and he was ONCE mostly. So he was a bit of an odd call. I think he was surprised….

VN: How did it go? Did you call him?LA: Called him and just said … I did say ultimately it’s not my decision, ’cause at the time [Mark] Gorski and [Thom] Weisel were running the team…. But I said would you be available if I were to suggest, or put it out there. And at the time he was gonna go work for the riders’ union, and try to get that going. He said, “Yeah.” He kind of played it cool, but it fast-tracked from there. I mean, within a few weeks, he met Mark at the ’98 world’s in Valkenburg, and I called him for the first time [only two weeks before] at the Vuelta.

VN: You’ve had some incredible teammates: George [Hincapie], Eki [Viatcheslav Ekimov], Chechu [Rubiera] and many others. Describe how they’ve helped you the most, and what was the biggest act that helped you come through some real difficulties?LA: Well, ultimately, it was their faith in me that got me through some difficult times. We had more good days than we had bad days … but there were times, especially 2003 or even 2000, like Joux-Plane, when it was a somber dinner table. But they always had faith in me, and they always believed I was gonna be their guy and I was gonna come through for them, even when it was a bad year like `03.

They never gave up on me [that year]. They always said, “Man, you’re gonna do it today. Today’s your day.” That was the same thing I told myself. That was always my attitude, like “God, today was so shitty. But I’m gonna go to bed and I know for sure tomorrow that I’m gonna be amazing.” And that never happened. It went shittier and shittier, until that one day. But that didn’t stop them [encouraging me], and they were always, “Okay, today’s the day,” especially George.

George and I would sit together towards the back of the bus, and those years we had less and less Americans, so you naturally gravitate towards your American friends, and he’s my closest friend on the team. And George is very mellow, very calm, he’s not a cheerleader, but in a very quiet, confident way he said, even the day before Luz-Ardiden, “Today’s the day.”

So, [they are] good friends, especially the ones you mentioned. We had some good memories…. Not so much in the races, but off the bike, a lot of highlights. Life highlights.VN: There’s been a lot of talk about other teammates who’ve left the team — Kevin [Livingston], Tyler [Hamilton], Floyd [Landis] — and they’ve gone on and done different things …

LA: … Vaughters …VN: Yeah, Jonathan…. Do you still talk to you all those guys? Do you still have any hard feelings about what happened?LA: No…. I mean, some of them at the time we had hard feelings. I mean, I don’t like to lose teammates and lose friends, but at the end of the day we work in a true free-agent market where your contract’s up, somebody comes along with a better offer, you can go. There’s nothing that holds you to a team.

But along the way you invest time and energy, and love and passion, into people, and you pass along the things that you know, and the things that you don’t know, and you help mold them into better athletes. So when they leave … because I’ve always been generous in that regard. When I come across somebody, a Kevin or a Tyler or a Floyd, I always try to give everything I know to them, because it’s in my best interest. They’ll work harder for me in the race and be more effective, they’ll be stronger, and when I retire, then perhaps they’ll come along and fill the void [in the team].

So it hurts when they leave, that’s normal and natural. Sometimes people leave and don’t say anything. Sometimes they leave and they’ve got a whole lot of things to say, which doesn’t help.But sitting here today I’m proud to say that I’m on good terms, great terms, with all of them. I mean, Kevin still lives here [in Austin], and we talk quite often. Floyd, I think things are patched up fine. In fact, we tried to take Floyd back a month ago, or six weeks ago. And we wouldn’t have done that … and [if] I don’t want to do that, it doesn’t happen. And I said, “Yer gotta do it. He’s American, he’s a great rider, he’s not old, gotta have him.” Unfortunately, and I do mean unfortunately, it didn’t happen.Tyler, I don’t speak to much anymore because … I don’t think many people talk much to Tyler these days because he’s so busy, so focused on his stuff that…. I miss talking to him, I miss seeing him in passing. He was a good teammate, quiet but loyal. And on the Tyler situation, he was really the guy…. I mean, when he left, people really wanted him. There was nothing we could do to keep him. And I think the misperception was that we had endless money.People said], “Aagh, you let him go.” Yeah, [but] look at these guys. If they get offered a boatload of money, we don’t have…. I’ve spent my whole life and I’m still looking for the money tree, and I haven’t found it, so if all the cynics and critics out there want to tell me where it is, I’d be happy to go, water it every now and again, and have the best team in the world, and keep everybody. But I can’t.

So we just couldn’t keep Tyler. He had an opportunity to be a team leader and make good money. But, losing guys, it’s always interesting to look back and, of course, at the time read all this stuff, and be livid: “Oh, they lost him….” But I have to give it to him. Johan always found somebody. And I think his best work was when [Roberto] Heras left.

I mean, it was like, “Ohhhh, they’re really done now. They lost Kevin, they lost Tyler, now they’ve lost Roberto it is over.” And who would have ever thought…. Number one, he had a contract, he had a team, he was signed, sealed and delivered. Who would have thought that we would have gone and found José Azevedo, brought him in, and the year he had in `04…. I mean, if that’s not a slap in the face, but that’s the brilliance of Bruyneel. Nobody in cycling can do that. It’s unbelievable. And he was dead set. The day Roberto left, he said, “I’m gonna get Azevedo.” I said, “O-kay. Great.” [He’s a] great rider but an even better person, fit in unbelievably well.VN: You said at the Tour, at your last press conference, that you didn’t want to be “a public figure” in the next few years.LA: Do or don’t? In cycling, or in the world?VN: You said you didn’t want to be a public figure ...LA: Right….

VN: That’s what you said. Quote.LA: Yeah.VN: But you seem to be just as prominent as ever. Are you pleased with how life’s treating you?LA: I’m trying to slow down. Honestly, I’m trying to do less. I’m trying to do less public things. But it’s a tricky thing because the fight against cancer is helped by somebody who maintains a high profile, or higher profile. They’re more effective, they can get to places that they wouldn’t be able to if they were quiet for three years. And my fiancée [Sheryl Crow] is also a very public figure, so I don’t have the option of just laying low. I mean, we go to the American Music Awards … you can choose to say nothing but you’re still there. They’re still gonna take your pictures so they’ll be out there.

But having said all that, I have not retired, I am just going … if you could just see the last two months, three months of work … I mean, just time in the air has been ridiculous. More than I’ve ever done. So people keep you busy. I mean, great opportunities. We haven’t taken a vacation yet, which is a bit of a bummer. And if I’m not here with my kids, then I’m on the road working.VN: Wasn’t it a vacation in Sun Valley when you popped the question to Sheryl?LA: Yeah, but that was only three days. I’m talking like 10 days, no phone, no Blackberries, no computers….VN: Is it true that your boat ran out of gas on the lake where you proposed to Sheryl?LA: Completely true. But before we left I said, “There’s not much in here, I think you wanna know.” It did sound like a tall tale, but it’s the truth.VN: In your life, what do consider was the best decision you’ve ever made, and on the backside, what’s the one you regret the most?LA: Oh, the best decision I ever made was going to Indiana [University Cancer Center] for treatment. Definitely. And the worst decision? Boy …VN: Or one that you would change in retrospect …LA: Ah, man …VN: Or one that messed your life up for a while. Something like that …LA: It’s hard to think of one … Ultimately, we’re on this path somewhere, and along the way you make good decisions or bad decisions. And sometimes the good decisions are ultimately very rewarding and the bad ones are totally devastating. I haven’t had one of those, where, literally, people will say, “You’ll regret it for the rest of your life.” I don’t have that.Now, there’s times when there’s little things in races, or an investment you made, or … I regret a lot of things. I regret getting the divorce, because I didn’t set out to get married, then get divorced with three kids. I regret that. I regret …VN: Do you regret chasing [Filippo] Simeoni [at the 2004 Tour]?

LA: Yeah. You regret chasing Simeoni. I mean, you do, because … not because … I still think he’s wrong. I still think he’s not truthful and honest. But I gave him way more attention and publicity than he ever deserved. He had a pedestal after that [stage] that was 50 feet higher than it was the day before.VN: Why did you chase him that day and not earlier in the race [on stage 9] when he was in a break with that Euskaltel guy [Iñigo Landaluze]?LA: Well, I think the misconception is that I chased him. I was on the wheel. I didn’t chase him. I mean, I didn’t go across to him. I was on the wheel. And I’m in the yellow jersey, he’s attacking, I’m on the wheel, I’m thinking, “Of course, Ullrich’s there [on my wheel]. Of course, Klöden’s there. Of course, Basso’s there. Of course, all these guys are there. Of course. Their teams are there.”And I have to say [Simeoni] was going very fast. And I didn’t look back. I mean, he pulled for a couple of minutes. And I was just like — he kept looking back — “Why is he pulling me?” And then I turned around and there was nobody there, and I thought, “Oh, oh. This is kinda funny.” But I never chased him. No.VN: But you stopped him from joining the break …LA: No, we joined the break.VN: Yeah, I meant you wouldn’t let him carry on with the break …LA: That’s what he says.VN: Okay, what do you say?LA: No, I’m the one who started … we got in the break. I started riding with the break. We had about 45 seconds at that point. I took ’em … all of those guys working and me, but me pulling as hard as I could, took them to two and a half minutes. And he was just sitting on the back, whining, “Aaah….” He was yelling, not working, because they were pissed at him. That’s what happened. If you watch the film, you’ll see that. He did not work at all. He was whining, like some Italians do … “Yah, yah, yah” … all these things, and I’m like, “Shut up and ride your bike. C’mon.”But all those guys, they had an opportunity for a stage win. And finally they said to me, “Thanks for the help. Two and a half minutes. Will you go back?” And I said, “Sure.” And I sat up, and the next thing I know, he sits up. And I’m like, “Why is he sitting up?” I’ve never really shared my version of that story because it’s hardly worth it, but since you asked …VN: Well, it’s very interesting.LA: Yeah. But I don’t want to say that I was all…. I think this idea of me chasing him down and he had like 15 seconds and I went across…. He may have come up one side … but I was immediately on the wheel. I didn’t look back, and I certainly didn’t expect to be alone. How can those guys [Ullrich, Basso et cetera] not come with me. That doesn’t make sense.VN: Is there anything you want to say to the readers of VeloNews, people who have followed your career since the start, or ones who’ve joined it in the past few years? Anything you want say to them, or to the editors of VeloNews?

LA: Well, I remember starting cycling. My first memory of VeloNews was at the Olympic Training Center back in ’89, George Hincapie coming in … and at that time it was a paper magazine folded over in two. It came like that, almost like a newspaper. That was the year we did junior world’s. But there was a little blurb in there about him, and him doing these Central Park criteriums, and beating up on all the older guys. He was so psyched, like, “Check this out, man.” And that was the first time I ever saw VeloNews.And then of course it got bigger, I think cycling got bigger; the magazine became glossy, which is good. We need that. Unfortunately, I think somewhere along the way, and I don’t know the exact time, but the direction of the magazine changed. And for the record, I’m here not for VeloNews, I’m here for you. I’m here because I appreciate you, I appreciate you as a journalist, you as a friend. You’ve been there for a long time, I know you and you know me. I would not do this for anyone else at VeloNews.

Armstrong didn't like this one.
Armstrong didn't like this one.

And I say that because I can’t stand the direction of the magazine. As I just said earlier, in the interview, about you can take two positions here: You can fight evil in sport in a quiet, effective way, or you can be a loud obnoxious, inefficient blowhard. And I think that the magazine has gone that way.There are many examples, and I think that, also, just the cover of a syringe made me sick. But that’s as a fan. That’s not as me, Lance Armstrong, pro cyclist. That’s just me as a fan. But I think that was perhaps out of desperation.

I think that in some circles the drug topic and the issue of doping can almost seem sexy, and scandalous, and through that you get good stories, and you get sources, anonymous sources. I mean, my life the last three or four years is full of anonymous sources. Anonymous sources don’t mean shit. They never hold up. You can’t produce them you can’t duplicate their stories. It’s unethical, immoral and unprofessional.

But people pick up Star magazine, they pick up the National Enquirer, because you get a good laugh, it’s a little thrilling, but I hate it for cycling. And so I wanted to go away from that…. I also at the same time think there’s been an anti- … and not to speak in third person … but an anti-Lance, anti-Postal, anti-Discovery attitude there, from way back, probably in the days of ’98, ’99, when we — and I mean Bill [Stapleton] and I — took a more aggressive position towards the way cycling and its athletes were going to be managed and represented.

We tried to adopt a standard that golf would have, that football, baseball, basketball would have, that athletes and their rights and their image are to be protected. And this is not a garage sport where we say, “Hey, let’s all go out here and ride around the block a few times and give a medal to the winner.” This is pro cycling, and what we want it to be is one of the most major sports in the world. And in order for that to happen we have to start acting like pros.

And we were hard on people. I mean, we didn’t allow them to cross the line, and I think that was viewed at the offices of VeloNews, or with the editors, as just a bunch of assholes. “Hey c’mon, Bill.” It’s the whole “hey, bro’” attitude. And so I think at that point, it created a lot of bad blood.

I read the Web site quite often, but I hardly ever pick up the magazine. Since the syringe cover, I haven’t picked up an issue of VeloNews. And it’s interesting as I … and the last thing I’ll say, is that it’s unfortunate. As much as I don’t like the direction it’s tremendously, it’s incredibly unfortunate, because what we’ve had … and I’m not trying to toot my own horn … but what’s happened the last seven years has been unbelievable for cycling. Not just because of me, but because of Tyler, and because of Floyd, and because of George, and a lot of guys did a lot of great things. Because of Postal, because of the Discovery team … because of all these people that came along and the stories they had, and the personalities they had or didn’t have. But this is the best generation of American cyclists that we’ve ever seen. I don’t give a shit, nobody can argue that.

And, just to go back, you look at the participation in the sport, higher than ever. You look at the actual industry in terms of total sales, much higher than ever. And then you look at the magazine, and the ads, and you go around the industry …

It’s a reflection on what’s coming through in the print, and so … that’s too bad. There’s nothing I can do about that. It’s not my magazine. I have a way that I would love to promote cycling and talk about cycling, and it’s very different to that. It’s not a cheeky little column, “What’s Hot and What’s Not” and ragging on my fiancée’s dress. I mean, please. I don’t think that’s respectful.

But the readers, I mean the fans have been amazing. I mean, whenever I go around domestically ... and especially the last three or four years, the amount of the people that came to the Tour [de France]. Those are fans, they are hardcore … they’re fit, their legs are shaved, they’ve got the nicest gear. They are true fans. That’s what we need. And they’re there, and they’re coming over and that’s not an easy trip to make. They come to Georgia, they come on the bike if I show up at a criterium in Ojai. They’re there. Look, how can the biggest magazine in our world here in the States not represent those people. I don’t get it. There.

What else?

VN: What would you say to a young kid like yourself when you were starting to do triathlons 14, 15 years old … or came into bike racing, found they had some ability? What would you advice be to them today? What would you do if you were starting out right now?

LA: I’m gonna bring it back to this whole debate on doping and whether or not cycling is good or not good. If there was a 15-year-old that came to me in my neighborhood, a kid I knew, I really cared about, and he said I want to be a pro cyclist, I think it’s a compelling story, that I would say, “Man, absolutely. You should definitely do that. It’s a great job. It’s done great things for me, taken me great places, et cetera.” I would say, yeah, emphatically.

But what’s even more compelling is if in 10 years my son comes to me and says, “Dad, I want to be a pro cyclist.” If I were that terrified of our sport and thought it was that bad and that unhealthy, and that unethical, I would say, “Are you crazy? You should be a teacher, a lawyer or a doctor.” But I would never say that. I would put my son straight into a bike race, and that’s the strongest statement I can make.

But for a kid today, I would encourage him to find a good program, and I know that’s sometimes difficult to find locally a good coach, or a good training group, or a good series of races. We’ve tried to start some races for young kids…. We have to have the races, the kids have to have something to shoot for, otherwise training with your buddy just doesn’t do it. There has to be a way to test yourself, and to have what we grow up wishing to do, the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat. And so you have to start on a small, state level, then go to a national and hopefully international level. But I would certainly encourage them.

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