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Technical Q&A with Lennard Zinn - More mix-n-match

Published: Jun. 2, 2009
The new 11-speed shifter.
The new 11-speed shifter.

Dear Lennard,
Thanks for all the great articles from Italy. I have a quick (Italian) question for you: Can I use Campy 11-speed shifters with a 10-speed cassette and drivetrain?

If they are not compatible right out of the box, can they be modified to work? Is it possible to put 10-speed guts in an 11-speed shifter? I really like the ergonomics of the new 11-speed shifters, but I don't want to swap everything else out.
Jon

Dear Jon,
I have not tried that, but I’m sure it won’t work. Since the 11-speed Ultra-Shift Ergopower lever pulls less cable with each shift than your 10-speed Ergopower lever, your chain won’t line up with any more than a cog or two on your system.

I don’t believe the 11-speed levers could be modified to work with your system at this point, either. The Ultra-Shift internals are completely different from pre-existing levers, and Campagnolo is not making a 10-speed Ultra-Shift parts kit for 11-speed levers.

An exploded view of pre-2009 Centaur QS/Escaped 10-speed Ergopower lever.
An exploded view of pre-2009 Centaur QS/Escaped 10-speed Ergopower lever.

Where the 10-speed Record and Chorus levers have an indexed gear that engages a pair of G-shaped springs, the 11-speed Ultra-Shift levers have a plate with grooves on its face to engage a spring-loaded detent ball. Check out the plate and the detent balls and springs in this photo I took of an exploded Campagnolo Super Record Ultra-Shift Ergopower lever when writing the overhaul instructions for it for the third edition of “Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance,” which I’m reading the page proofs of now.

You also can’t use the guts of the much simpler “QS” or “Escape” lever (2006-2009 Centaur and below groups), because those are also very different. They incorporate a steel index gear without G-springs and have far fewer parts inside, as you can see from this exploded view I photographed for the new book edition.

The exploded view of the pre-2009 Chorus and Record Shifters.
The exploded view of the pre-2009 Chorus and Record Shifters.

Exploded views of the pre-2009 Chorus and Record lever guts are illustrated in the first and second editions of “Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance;” attached are exploded views of both 8-speed and 8/9-speed ErgoPower levers from “ Zinn's Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists.”

You could, of course, buy the new Centaur 10-speed Ultra-Shift Ergopower levers, which have the same ergonomics as the 11-speed Chorus, Record and Super Record Ultra-Shift levers; they would shift fine with the rest of your system intact. It may actually even be possible eventually to buy a 10-speed indexing plate for the new Centaur Ultra-Shift levers and substitute it into an 11-speed lever, but I don’t know about this, as I have yet to disassemble a 10-speed Ultra-Shift lever.

As another option, Dave Zimbelman, a friend I used to race with in the early 1980s and who now works at Salmon Cyclery in Oregon’s Columbia River Gorge has gone to 11-speed without getting the derailleurs or cranks.

A look at the 8-speed system.
A look at the 8-speed system.

He wrote me this: “I have been riding a "minimal" Campy 11s setup to see what works; this means 11s shifters, chain and cassette only w/ SRAM Red crankset (177.5mm CT, which Campy doesn't make) and Campy 10s derailleurs; I've used this about 1200 miles with great results; it shifts as fast and clean as another bike which I use as a "baseline" which has full Campy Super Record 11s and which also has been ridden for about 1100 miles. To date, the system works fantastic, better than a pure 10s system.”
Lennard

Dear Lennard,
With all the team vehicles, fuel, electricity, and water
 consumption, what is the carbon footprint of an average ProTour team at a 
Grand Tour?
Michael

Dear Michael,
I’ll let you calculate that, as I don’t know how to do it. I would imagine that on average each of the 22 teams has five station wagons with roof racks full of bikes, one bus and one truck, all of which drive an average of 200km per day. Then of course there’s laundry, food, lodging, etc. And that’s only the tip of the iceberg compared to the entire race itself. Think of all of the transport of race barriers, grandstands, concessions, start village, etc., not to mention transport and lodging of the fans, publicity caravan, media, organizers, etc. Big footprint.

But if you’re interested in environmental impacts of the race, nothing grates me more than team mechanics who continue to use diesel fuel to clean bikes, spraying it and dumping it in parking lots of, for example, seaside hotels along the Lido di Jesolo in the days before the Giro’s start. Many do use biodegradable cleaners, but plenty don’t, and the first rainstorm it goes right in the Adriatic.
Lennard

Stream of consciousness

On a long mountain ride recently, I discovered that if you have worn all of the rubber off of a Hutchinson Fusion 2 tubeless tire all of the way down to the casing all of the way around, that it won’t hold air even with Stan’s NoTubes latex-based sealant inside. The irony did not escape me the following day when I found myself editing the “Basic Stuff” chapter of the page proofs for the third edition of “Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance,” which includes the admonition to always check your tire wear before setting out on a ride, particularly when it’s a long ride. It is testimonial to that tire in particular and tubeless road tires with sealant in them in general, though, that I could ride it on my rear wheel all of the way through the rubber without ever having gotten a flat, despite riding a lot of dirt roads on it.

Anyway, I almost never (until now) carry tire levers in my spare-tire bags under the saddles of my various bikes, because I normally never have problems removing or installing road (or MTB) tires without tools. But this tire was too tight on my Ksyrium ES wheel to get off with my bare hands. I ended up prying it off with a screwdriver and breaking the carbon-fiber tire bead in the process. Fortunately, the tire was already worn out! I was able to ride about 25 miles back home with a tube in it with no problem other than tire hop caused by the tire stretching out abnormally where the bead was broken.

I was very interested to see globs of hardened latex adhered to the inside of the tire under a few punctures in the tire. Obviously, that sealant had saved me from a puncture a number of times without me even being aware that I’d punctured the tire. That’s what I love about tubeless tires — no pinch flats or worries about small punctures. But now I’ll check tire wear better and will bring tire levers along when riding them! Good thing this didn’t happen while I was riding in Italy the last couple of weeks, also on tubeless tires (those tires I did inspect before packing my bike).
Lennard

Cool link I got recently

Dear Lennard,
Have you checked this out?
Louis

Technical writer Lennard Zinn is a frame builder (www.zinncycles.com), a former U.S. national team rider and author of numerous books on bikes and bike maintenance including the pair of successful maintenance guides "Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance" - now available also on DVD, and "Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance," as well as "Zinn and the Art of Triathlon Bikes" and "Zinn's Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists."

Zinn's regular column is devoted to addressing readers' technical questions about bikes, their care and feeding and how we as riders can use them as comfortably and efficiently as possible. Readers can send brief technical questions directly to Zinn. Zinn's column appears here each Tuesday.

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